Old Earth vs. Evolution & God's Love and Hell

Welcome to "That's a Good Question," a podcast where pastors Jon Delger and Daryl Crawford answer tough questions about Christianity and the Bible. In each episode, we tackle a different topic and provide practical insights and thoughtful responses to questions from our listeners. Whether you're a Christian or just curious about faith, join us for a conversation that will challenge and encourage you. Tune in now to hear our latest episode on how an old earth or evolution perspective aligns with the Bible, and how God's love can coexist with the concept of hell.

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Transcript

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How does teaching an old earth or evolution perspective contradict with the Bible? Hey, buddy. Welcome to. That's a good question. I'm Pastor John. I'm here with. Pastor. Darrell and we're excited to get to talk today and answer some questions that you all asked. Welcome to. That's a good question. Where we get to answer questions that you all have asked, questions about the Christian faith, questions about the sermon that was preached on Sunday at his church. This past Sunday sermon was preached by Pastor Darrell. And we got to continue and actually conclude our series on Easter Light Up the Darkness and talk about Jesus being the light of life. So excited to answer some questions. Now, each of these questions actually kind of dives off of a different point that you made in the sermon. None of them is about the main point, but that's okay and that's awesome. Excited to answer those. So here we go. First question How does teaching an old earth or evolution perspective contradict with the Bible? So that's a great question, and I think it came off as just a very short comment that, yeah, during the sermon. I made, I made a question about the darkness, you know, embraces the natural, ascetic, humanistic, getting rid of God. Yeah. And which brought up the the theory of evolution, which is a very controversial subject. And yeah, in a lot of ways, especially in the church. So, you know, does it contradict the scriptures? Well, first of all, I think someone who who does struggle maybe with how it all came about and maybe ask some questions about it and they still want to be a member of Peace Church, I think that's fine. Yeah. You know, there is it is. Okay to have questions. Yes. Ignorance. Yeah. Yeah. But I do I do think that people who want to have an old earth view are missing a lot of beauty in the Scripture. And what the Scripture says. And just for example, you know, and God creates Genesis 131 says this and God saw everything that he had made. And behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning the sixth day. So, you know, the question would be, is God standing over millions of years of natural selection and survival of the fittest and saying, this is this is very good. And I don't see that in Scripture because we see that after the fall, we see Romans 512 shows us. Therefore, just a sin came into the world through man, through one, one man and death through sin. And so death spread to amen because all sinned ad death came to mankind and to this world through the sin of Adam and Eve. And even in Romans eight, it talks about the creation, groaning, waiting for the day for sin to be done away with, for the sons of God to be revealed. And Jesus came to conquer what sin. And the last thing I mean, He's going to conquer is death, when everything will be very good again. Yeah. So I think that's one of the big questions you have to answer, is coming to the scriptures and looking at the the threat of the gospel through the whole yeah, through all the scripture and say, yeah, it does matter because survival of the fittest, natural selection is all about death. Right. And randomness where God is a God of order. Right. God, you know, God created everything out of nothing. And when he said when he created all those things, it was orderly. It was good. Where the theory of evolution would say it's random and it's it's violent and it's the weaker dies off and is killed off by the stronger. And that's not I would not say that from looking at the Scripture that that's God's good order to this world. And I would look at to that I would say that you always needed that special revelation. The Bible have the the most the precedence over natural revelation. What you see out in the world don't impose a natural revelation or what you see in the world upon the scriptures. You start with the scriptures and impose that upon what you see in the world. And there are scientists out there that do that, that are well. That's what I was going to add to, is, yeah, not only is this good biblical interpretation, actually, I think this is good science. You know, if you you brought a book with you about some of the books put out there by scientists that are more of a Christian coming from Christian perspective, are saying that while the theory of evolution is just that, it's a theory and unfortunately it's come to the place where we teach it as if it's fact. But it is it is a theory and it misses some key parts of supporting evidence. Right. That actually good science I think we're going to find in the long run aligns with good biblical interpretation. And that actually the natural revelation, a special revelation, eventually line up. You know, when we when we study them deeply in hard. Yeah, yeah. When you think about it like what science is, it's knowledge. It's the study. That's what the word science means. And science, you know, you have to have something repeated. And to be able to repeat it with experimentation in order to prove what your hypothesis is, what you're thinking. And this might be this. So let's experiment and let's and if you repeat it over and over again, then that's good science. The Big Bang has never been observed. Nobody was there. Nobody has tried to repeat it or can repeat it. So it's actually a faith. It's actually looking and saying, okay, this is what these scientists are saying, and then this is how it happened. No one was there. Yeah. I mean, in the Bible we have the God of the universe, the creator of the eternal one, saying, this is how I am revealing myself to you. Yeah. One of my favorite books on the topic is a book called I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist, which is a great title. I think Norm Geisler and Frank Tarak are the two authors of that book, you know, older now, but that one, anything in that line I think is good. Yeah, Good stuff helps. On another key point. So you mentioned that theologically one of the main the one of the main browsers death that death happening before the fall is an issue along side of that. I would also bring up you read Romans five which talks about the the first atom and the last atom. Yes, right. And I think with evolution, you've got this problem of it kind of eliminates the first atom. Exactly. That really, if you were to follow, you know, the theory and the science, there can't be just one human being, one Homo sapiens from which all came that it doesn't work that way in that theory. And so you lose the original one atom, and the Bible tells us that there's one atom and that because of that one atom, that's where sin comes from in all of us. And then the result is that Jesus, the last atom overcomes that sin. So actually you, you become, you. Lose. Our doctrine of sin and our doctrine of the gospel. Salvation, I say from sin. That's a big issue. Yeah. So it's a it's a, it's a it's a big issue. And it's okay to question it because we weren't there. And there are some things in the scriptures, you know, the Scripture is not a science book, but it points to how God did things. But what's interesting is there are scientists out there that are coming to practicing science and doing science through the lens of the scripture. This would be a book on that. It's called Replacing Darwin by Daniel Jensen, and he's actually got a Ph.D. in cell and developmental biology from Harvard University. So here's a Harvard University guy who I got this for Christmas one time, and it's a science book, and so I haven't read it yet, but I know that there's some good stuff in it. So I read before. But no, no. So if you're looking for like, here's a guy who actually is a scientist who comes to scripture, believes in a literal six day, 24 hour creation, who's a Harvard graduate. Yeah. Who believes that and does science. So it's it's there. Yeah. And so they all had to say that. So in my mind, I always separate the evolution issue and the age of the Earth issue. They do they do relate and go together personally as well. I think both of us here are both guys who believe in seven days or six days, 24 hour period. Yeah, I think that is the simplest way to read the Bible and read the texts. It makes sense. I try to be a little bit flexible and gracious on the age of the Earth thing, but when it comes to evolution, and I think that's pretty clear and there's a hard line there. And one of the things that the edge of the Earth that gets me too, is looking at that this and saying, okay, there's morning, there's evening. And he talks about days, there's six days and then the Sabbath. And that's just the natural flow of our lives, too. I mean, there has been people have tried to change from a seven day week and it messes everything up. Yeah. So it just it to me, when you look at it, you start here, it says, you know, a six day creation, seventh day rest. That's just a natural flow of of what how the earth works, too. And so if you start thinking about, like the Grand Canyon or other sort of natural effects things that we that that we often look at and say, well, that took millions of years for that to happen. Actually. So Ken and Ken Ham and the answers in Genesis organization, that there's a lot of good stuff there. The Creation Museum, if you've ever heard of them, that's that's them. My wife and I had a chance to go there, see the museum, read some of their stuff, and I was really compelled by a lot of what they shared. And actually the fact that we have witnessed erosion of rock like that's a massive loss on Mount St Helens in 1980 blew up and we saw just how fast the earth really can change with land and water and lava and that actually, hey, this stuff doesn't have to take millions of years. It could happen really fast and especially when we take into account a worldwide flood. Right. We think about a flood happening, a Genesis six man, that could change the earth like very fast. Real fast. So, you know, people say it was it a little water over a long period of time or a lot of water over a short period of time. Right. So and in the Grand Canyon, there's actually trees growing up through the strata of rock. So, yeah, it's there if we can come. We don't have to be ignorant of what science is and what it was, you know, with holding true to the scriptures as well. Yeah, Christianity is not anti-science, right, by any means. Unfortunately, often us and maybe mainstream scientists have a different starting point. They want to assume that there is no God where we're as we're saying, well, there is a God, right? Or even if you were to be fair, more neutral and start in the middle. But either way, yeah, Christian Christianity is not anti-science. We work together to see both of God's parts of his revelation. Awesome. Next question. Here we go. How can God be a God of love? And yet he can send people to hell. Good question. That is a good question. There's in thinking through this, there's an analogy I've heard where, you know, if if you go to a junkyard and you take your key and you scratch in 1965, Ford people are probably are really going to cares like don't hurt your key because you need to leave. Right? They don't care about the vehicle. But if you go into the new Ford lot and scratch a car, you're going to be in trouble. But then if you go to a Lamborghini lot and start scratching the car, you're going to be in even more trouble because of the value of the object. Right? Yeah. And so we've sinned against a holy good, the creator, the ultimate God, and we've sinned against him. And it's not that we just put a scratch on it. Jesus says that if we if we, like, hate somebody, you know, that is like it's like murder. If you lust after a woman in your heart, that's adultery. And when we lie. So we didn't just scratch the Lamborghini, we stole the Lamborghini, we went on a joyride, were chased by the cops, ran over some people and then crashed it. Sure. And we've all done that for all of sin and falls short of the glory of God and what is a holy and just God supposed to do with that? Well, the one thing he does do is he sends his son, Jesus Christ, to save sinners, and we don't do anything. Jesus took our punishment and we turn to Jesus, put our faith in him, and we have salvation. And we don't face that. But God is just And so and he's loving and you can't separate the two. And so therefore, a loving and just God can punish people in hell and still remain loving and just. Yeah, yeah. And I would also just turn the question around of if God doesn't send people to hell, how can you be satisfied with that? Right. Yeah, that's a great point, man. Can you imagine a heaven without a hell or or a world in which there's a God who seems to be just. Yeah, right. There you go. There you go. You know, can you imagine getting to heaven and seeing, you know, Adolf Hitler or, you know, just think of all the horrific things that happen in our world and just think if there is no eternal justice. As Christians, we believe that justice is always satisfied either by the sinner receiving their just punishment and how or by Jesus taking their punishment on the cross or receiving God's wrath of the cross for them there. Either way. Justice gets satisfied, Right? But man, I think for many people in the world, I think it's a is an interesting place for us to to sit and think, yeah, there shouldn't be a hell. We don't think people need justice. I sort of wonder what kind of lifestyle you come from that you think that. But I think for many people in our world, they've seen or they've suffered such injustice that they I think I understand the need for God. If God is going to be loving, He must also be just right. How can God love me or be good if he's not going to punish evil? Exactly. And and it's one of those things, too, that, you know, you always the saying that that's above my pay grade. That is God's decision and that is what God's through. I'm glad that it's not my decision. I don't want that. Yeah. And God, who knows all this, all powerful. He knows all things. He knows the thoughts and intentions of our hearts. He will deal justly and lovingly in this world in the end. That's right. We know that is good. We know these just. Yeah, we listen to his word and we trust that whatever decision he makes is the best. And we also we know our role, which is to share the goodness of the gospel, right? That hell, you don't you don't have to end up in hell. Exactly. You can turn to Jesus and receive salvation from your sins by putting your faith in him. So, yeah. Good. All right. Last question for us today is this How do we reconcile Jesus teaching on nonviolence and love for our enemies in the New Testament with the acts of violence and warfare that God assigns to his people in the Old Testament, such as the destruction of Jericho, God's command for Saul to destroy the implicates. How do you how do you reconcile this apparent contradiction and how do we interpret and apply conflicting passages like that? Well, Jesus does say that, but Jesus also says that if you lead a little one astray, it'd be better if a millstone are tied around your neck and you're drowned in the sea. That's a good point. You know, so he does Jesus talks about hell in judgment quite a bit. And but he does talk about love, too, because he's got in the flesh, right? There's those two sides. But when you look at the ocean, actually. If I could jump in again, go for it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I want to say I want to say that Jesus actually talks about hell more than any other character in the Bible. Right? Yes. Yeah. Jesus in the New Testament, he talks about how I'm more than any other character in the Bible. So you have to be careful before you jump to that sort of conclusion that, Oh, Jesus didn't talk about, oh, that's just an Old Testament, right? That's that's not. True. So people do so many times they cherry picked, you know, what they want to read. And Jesus does say a lot of things about love. But then he also says, you know, get away from me. I've never known you. Yeah. Awesome and eternal judgment, you know, or there'll be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Yeah. You know, so there, there are those two sides. But also in going to the Old Testament, what we see going on is as these people that are going to have judgment brought upon them through the nation of Israel, they're not some perfect people. There's their sin. They're an evil. They're these these people were sacrificing their children to gods and doing evil things. And in fact, in Genesis chapter 15, when God is giving making the covenant with Abraham, he says this in verses 15 and 16, He says, That's for you shall go to your fathers in peace and you shall be buried in a good old age, and they shall come back here in the fourth generation after Israel's been slaves for the iniquity of the Emirates is not yet complete. So these people have come to a point where they're they're sacrificing their children, they are evil and God is bringing judgment upon them through Israel. Plus, God wants to keep his people set apart for him. And he says they cannot make covenant and be with these people, have marriages with these people because they they're worshiping demons. They're following after other gods. So they needed to get them out of there as well. And we see what the implicates. Part of the problem with that, with Silas, they didn't obey God and get rid of them at first and they were causing all kinds of problems. And Israel ended up intermarrying with those, the people of the land and falling into idolatry. And then the God had judgment on them as well. Yeah, yeah. God in the Old Testament is not this is not racial or ethnic cleansing. No, this is not yeah, this is not about one race of people or country versus another country. This is God has decided to use a certain country to punish sin. Right. God decides to do it that way. And at that time and we also see that actually later in the Old Testament against Israel. Right. God uses other nations such as Assyria and Babylon to punish Israel's sin. So it did go both ways. I can understand why people that's that is there are some scenes in there, especially the Book of Joshua on judges, where you're there's some scenes in there that are there are some yeah there they're there rated-R you know you want to read those to your kids maybe and I leave out a couple of the details. There's some tough stuff that happens in there, but they are not innocent people. It's God's decision about how to punish sin. You know, we don't get to make those decisions. That was a unique time in history that it was a theocracy. You know, God declared, Israel is going to do this, go do this. You know, we don't get to say that now. And in the United States or whatever and say, hey, we're going to go punish sin over there or it doesn't work the same way. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it comes back to our first question to these questions like, you know, God is the creator of the universe, Capital C, everything else is creation. Do you believe God is good, holy, and just infinite? Eternal knows more than we do. Do you trust him? Yeah. You know, that's that's one of the things that, you know, we're called the people of faith, so we can have answers for this. But some of it boils down to God, God's God, and we're not. And we trust what he says. We believe he's good. So some of it does boil down to that as well. Yeah. Definitely. Awesome. Yeah. Great stuff, brother. Thanks, everybody. Thanks for joining us. Great questions, as always. Continue to ask them. You can always listen to us on YouTube, Facebook, and also this is now a podcast for all. Listen to us in the car or at work or however you do that you can find us wherever you find podcast from. Awesome. Have a great week, everybody.